tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post1803564986140449106..comments2024-03-25T00:18:14.319-07:00Comments on Against The Wicked City: A brief word on some recent online controversiesJoseph Manolahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05387275537008858939noreply@blogger.comBlogger77125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-1377160454795849472024-01-04T03:38:40.761-08:002024-01-04T03:38:40.761-08:00>thing you like isn't that important
>bu...>thing you like isn't that important<br />>but letting us change it to fit our egoistic bullshit is paramountAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-4010234916537382022020-10-14T10:08:50.728-07:002020-10-14T10:08:50.728-07:00Poor noisms. How awful for you. Maybe you should g...Poor noisms. How awful for you. Maybe you should go and have a good humoured chat with white supremacists. I believe that's something you'd be cool with.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-91753001102456819362019-01-02T15:12:19.815-08:002019-01-02T15:12:19.815-08:00Ooh, I missed that - what's the Ted Beale infl...Ooh, I missed that - what's the Ted Beale influence in ACKS? /me will have to skim contributor lists next time he has his books out.Tom Hudsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14295247089905712338noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-52202740998536814092018-12-24T04:18:09.030-08:002018-12-24T04:18:09.030-08:00Well said!Well said!TomPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11165370750896996612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-69692529713980702452018-12-13T08:15:45.110-08:002018-12-13T08:15:45.110-08:00The internet is not somewhere to discuss matters d...The internet is not somewhere to discuss matters deeply important, and I don't consider this a discussion but an intervention.<br /><br />It remains necessary online to firefight childlike displays of moral vanity.Edmundhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05932779308015790500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-53782113062400818642018-12-12T14:11:33.291-08:002018-12-12T14:11:33.291-08:00Yeah, I don't envy you that. I have a lot of r...Yeah, I don't envy you that. I have a lot of respect for the classical conservative tradition - Dr Johnson is a bit of a hero of mine - and as I get older I find myself increasingly irritated by some strands of leftist politics, especially the assumption that every social problem can and should be resolved by throwing unlimited quantities of public money at it. And I do recognise that there are plenty of legitimate reasons for people to dislike the EU, even though I, personally, believe that Britain would be better off remaining within it. <br /><br />Anyway. Stick with it. Progressives need opposition from principled conservatives in order to keep them intellectually honest! Joseph Manolahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05387275537008858939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-14162713386197076482018-12-12T12:01:00.173-08:002018-12-12T12:01:00.173-08:00I am probably what you would call a mainstream con...I am probably what you would call a mainstream conservative working at a British university in a humanities/social science department. I would say it is very uncomfortable at times, not because of direct "in your face" criticism or abuse or anything like that, but because we conservatives have now become so few and far between that there is often a feeling of being squashed by a kind of liberal-normative monolith. People just talk to each other *as if* everybody agrees with the prevailing Right Opinions, and things become awkward when it emerges that you don't. Brexit has brought this to a head. I can't tell you the number of conversations I've been a party to in which for five minutes everybody has been slagging off "low information" voters, old people, etc., for voting leave, at which point I've made everybody have to stare at their shoes by piping up and saying, "Well, I voted leave."<br /><br />Things can be even sharper than that at conferences and such like. For most academics in the social sciences "conservative" is simply an insult - a four letter word you throw at somebody to defeat their argument. "I think you are making a deeply conservative point here." Heaven forfend! Again, you end up with fairly difficult scenarios sometimes when you put back to that person that, yes, I am making a conservative point and can draw on hundreds of years of perfectly respectable intellectual history to support it. noismshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09933436762608669966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-1658556612455394012018-12-11T02:18:35.565-08:002018-12-11T02:18:35.565-08:00Yeah, I know who Edmund is. But I feel, rightly or...Yeah, I know who Edmund is. But I feel, rightly or wrongly, that I have to make at least a token effort. Blame all those years of teaching. <br /><br />Edmund / Kent, I must regretfully agree with Beoric. You show no signs of actually wanting to engage with anything that anyone else is saying: you just continue to sling insults and assert that you're right because you're right. As such, I feel that further conversation would not be fruitful. Also, your comments on Muslims and trans people are awful. <br /><br />Your actions on the internet *are* actions in real life. They really affect real people. In your case, they really affect real people for the worse. You should be ashamed of yourself. But I'm sure you have built yourself some unassailably self-supporting narrative about how everything you do is brave and right and virtuous, so by all means go and congratulate yourself for a righteous victory over the heathen, or whatever.<br /><br />If and when you wish to discuss this further, *in a spirit of genuine tolerance and mutual respect*, then I would be willing to do so. But I'm not going to have a debate with someone who's just doing the online equivalent of spitting at people. Joseph Manolahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05387275537008858939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-32594233130870733672018-12-10T20:39:10.538-08:002018-12-10T20:39:10.538-08:00Joseph, please don't feed the troll. If you d...Joseph, please don't feed the troll. If you don't recognize him, "Edmund" is most likely "Kent" under one of his several aliases. He will continue to respond to your courtesy and reason with insults and vitriol as long as anyone in your comment section gives him an excuse to, and possibly for a while after as he tries to start things up again. The readers in your kinder, gentler corner of the internet are fresh meat to him. Don't give him the satisfaction.Beorichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05179135838206052198noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-14077636804154971452018-12-10T19:26:24.204-08:002018-12-10T19:26:24.204-08:00And you bang on about 'kindness', well onl...And you bang on about 'kindness', well only those who observe your actions in real life can decide if you are 'kind'. Certainly not you.<br /><br />It's not for you to proclaim such virtue about yourself on the internet where no-one has any credibility. Edmundhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05932779308015790500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-27772717886612684272018-12-10T18:50:52.846-08:002018-12-10T18:50:52.846-08:00That is a dishonest and stupid response. All the y...That is a dishonest and stupid response. All the yelling is coming from the idiot-left. And the media and the law are entirely on the side of criminalising 'Hate-speech' with is a foolish undefinable construct, so any of those who are anti-idiot-left are fighting authority and the right to speak freely about mass insane religious imports into europe, and the mental disorder of gender confusion which doctors are afraid to oppose for fear of being sacked. (because of virtue signalling cunts - morons who are wealthy and have been educated in the politically infected humanities)<br /><br />==Fifthly, liberalism - the ability to resolve our differences via rigorous but mutually-respectful debate, rather than mass violence<br /><br />It is the idiot-left who is opposed to debate and free-speech. Not even the idiot-left denies this. They simply oppose free speech and avoid debate. If you deny this anyone reading your denial will know you are either lying or ignorant.<br /><br />Haven't you read Jonathan Haidt on the extreme bias in universities, it is about 19-1 idiot-left vs normal.<br /><br />The PC mob is not being abused on campus, the PC mob is the entire body of humanities lecturers and their bullshit is now established course content. This won't last, and idiots like you will destroy universities as parents decide they are being asked to pay a fortune for worthless education, and universities become STEM colleges exclusively. <br /><br />You come across like a typical virtue signalling cunt, so you are in for plenty of "surprises" over the coming years as snowflakes, the useful idiots for the elite, melt away.Edmundhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05932779308015790500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-79388516498357921032018-12-10T02:33:00.870-08:002018-12-10T02:33:00.870-08:00This is a somewhat bizarre misreading of my actual...This is a somewhat bizarre misreading of my actual point.<br /><br />People are allowed to disagree with one another. I very much take the old-style Enlightenment view on this: progress comes from the clash of opposing ideas. But that clash has to happen within a context of mutual respect, or people stop listening to each other and just start trying to hurt each other, instead. <br /><br />It is perfectly possible to articulate a critique of contemporary identity politics without being hateful. It's not even that difficult. And it has the added benefit that people who disagree with you might actually *listen* to you, rather than writing you off as yet another frothing bigot.<br /><br />You can disagree with people and still be kind to them. In fact, kindness towards people that you disagree with is probably one of the most important forms to cultivate. <br /><br />(See also: the history of the Early Modern period.)Joseph Manolahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05387275537008858939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-83637206782518651842018-12-10T02:20:31.716-08:002018-12-10T02:20:31.716-08:00I mean, the vast majority of my colleagues are lef...I mean, the vast majority of my colleagues are leftists of one strain or another, as you'd expect in a humanities department. But the fact that two of my colleagues vote Conservative, and supported Brexit, is pretty well known, and it doesn't stop us being friends with them and working with them. We don't *agree* with them, but it doesn't mean we have to *hate* them.<br /><br />I agree that there are forms of conservative politics which would go down much less well, though. We're a very heavily unionised department, so opposition to trade unionism would probably make you a pariah. And the kind of cultural conservatism which leads people to complain about the increasing number of women and black people on university syllabi would not go down well in a departmental meeting. Joseph Manolahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05387275537008858939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-89040495961214789662018-12-10T02:12:31.935-08:002018-12-10T02:12:31.935-08:00The arguments in this post seem to be rather confu...The arguments in this post seem to be rather confused. I'll try to disaggregate them as best I can. <br /><br />First, not every Muslim is part of an 'intolerant religious fanaticism'. I know from personal experience that the vast majority are ordinary, decent people, very much like everyone else, and deserving of the same courtesy that should be extended to members of any other community. <br /><br />Secondly, the idea that random abuse of Muslims should be tolerated (or encouraged?) just because you, personally, happen to be hostile to Islam as an ideology is essentially the same as the idea that I complained about in my original post, namely that random homophobia or transphobia should be tolerated or encouraged just because you, personally, happen to be hostile to modern identity politics. No matter how committed you may be to these particular ideological battles, this is the worst possible way to fight them. Yelling abuse at a random girl in a headscarf does nothing to weaken ISIS, any more than posting homophobic comments on a game blog does anything to weaken modern left-wing politics. All it does is ensure that some completely innocent people are going to have a really shitty day. <br /><br />Thirdly, two wrongs don't make a right. Yelling abuse at Muslim students can't suddenly become OK just because a local feminist activist happens to have been saying some very silly things about, say, trans people.<br /><br />Fourthly, the idea that 'feminists and black rights activists' are roaming around university campuses abusing people seems to have no correlation with reality. I've spent the last seventeen years working and studying in British universities and I've never seen anything of the sort. (And I'm a straight white guy, so presumably the kind of person they'd be targeting if this sort of thing was actually happening...) <br /><br />Fifthly, liberalism - the ability to resolve our differences via rigorous but mutually-respectful debate, rather than mass violence - was precisely how we escaped from the religious wars of the 16th century in the first place. Name-calling ('religious neanderthals') hardly places you on the side of 'Christian values', here. <br /><br />I don't mind you expressing opinions I disagree with. But please try to do so with courtesy rather than via childish insult-slinging. You're lowering the tone. Joseph Manolahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05387275537008858939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-9194595081207891112018-12-07T16:22:00.156-08:002018-12-07T16:22:00.156-08:00How confident are you of the "vice versa"...How confident are you of the "vice versa"? From what I see from the outside, a lot of universities, especially arts-side departments, look as though they are becoming environments increasingly and deliberately hostile to and hence probably uncomfortable for even relatively mainstream conservatives, but a) I haven't worked in one myself, and b) even if that is happening on a larger scale, perhaps your department isn't <br />typical?Jacobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11292062128781092862noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-63246350421832717412018-12-06T18:49:12.477-08:002018-12-06T18:49:12.477-08:00It all sounds so simple. Women and minorities are ...It all sounds so simple. Women and minorities are always right, and any criticism of them is always wrong, and thus deserves to be silenced.<br /><br />Trouble is, if you shut down discussion and criticism, you don't get agreement and you don't change any minds. Instead you give power to two equally undesirable groups. The first group are petty tyrants who happily dub anything they dislike "racist" or "sexist" or "homophobic" and use your good intentions to gain and hold power over others. The second group are genuine bigots, who also benefit because they are the only voice of dissent, since legitimate criticism is shut down. Congratulations, your attempt to create unity and civility only promotes anger and division.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-30518093216832595822018-12-06T17:06:23.001-08:002018-12-06T17:06:23.001-08:00That's my sixth favourite illogical award. Tha...That's my sixth favourite illogical award. Thanks.Edmundhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05932779308015790500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-32442455698977262172018-12-06T14:37:32.374-08:002018-12-06T14:37:32.374-08:00And the award for gratuitous misogyny goes to Edmu...And the award for gratuitous misogyny goes to Edmund. Congratulations!StevenWarblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12697680166430879676noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-139554645979132622018-12-06T12:17:49.195-08:002018-12-06T12:17:49.195-08:00== call upon the 'mediating institutions' ...== call upon the 'mediating institutions' that supposedly regulate our interactions - but if someone came into the department and started yelling BNP slogans at Muslim students, we'd invoke the university authorities, and quite right too. Online, however, such provocateurs are much harder to get rid of. I'm not sure that anyone's quite figured out a real solution yet.<br /><br />Don't you realize that many more young people have to endure cretinous obloquy from feminists and black rights activists from worthless departments while trying to learn at university. <br /><br />What kind of morons in the west want to protect a swiftly growing intolerant religious fanatacism - Islam. Christians? Atheists? Virtue Signaling Cunts? It seems to be a mission of honour among the idiot-left to revive 16th religious wars in the west by encouraging mass immigration of religious neanderthals (Muslims) at the same time as excoriating Christian values which have already sunk to a background hum. The hypocrisy is shameful. Edmundhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05932779308015790500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-18299154706972785582018-12-05T18:14:43.994-08:002018-12-05T18:14:43.994-08:00I can see why a trans person might interpret invoc...I can see why a trans person might interpret invocations of Jordan Peterson as gestures of hostility towards themselves, but I think they're mistaken to interpret them that way.<br /><br />Peterson himself has said he's not transphobic and that if a trans student asked him to address them as she or he, he would do. His stake in the controversy was that he didn't want gender pronouns (especially not the confusing ones) mandated by law.<br /><br />There are a lot of things beyond that one controversy that you might invoke Peterson for- his bestselling self-help book, his lecture series', his inspirational videos. <br /><br />It's unfortunate that a lot of the people who comment on the videos made about him (you know the ones, the clickbaity "Peterson destroys dumb Channel 4 feminist" type things) are fairly repulsive, but that's youtube for you, it's kind of a cesspool. <br /><br />The alt-right transphobes that do that make the mistake of assuming that because JP disagrees with Canadian trans activists he's somehow "one of them". Despite his opponents constantly trying to prove them right, I don't think he has said anything alt-right-y. <br /><br />I find "virtue signalling" as a criticism of the left similar to "dog whistle" as a criticism of the right. Much of the time it's a way for you to ignore what the person is saying, because they don't really mean that, /this/ is what they probably really think. <br /><br />Anyway, I hope you don't think badly of me because I enjoy some of JPs stuff (I'm pretty ambivalent on a lot of the Jungian philosophy and biblical narrative stuff though). I just felt I had to weigh in because I don't think he's the devil people paint him as. Love your blog, and I'm sad to see creative people dropping out of the OSR blogosphere because of these social media (is that where this is all taking place? Never seen any of it leak into blog posts until now) arguments.<br />ribbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03198571849485788318noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-41944310136753455882018-12-05T04:46:36.289-08:002018-12-05T04:46:36.289-08:00The thing is, they won't learn to be better, b...The thing is, they won't learn to be better, because they're not being bad on accident. They're committed to an ideological worldview that requires some people to suffer so that they can live what they imagine to be a more fulfilled life. I appreciate you taking a stand on this issue, and enjoy your content, but the truth of the matter is - you can't be neutral on a moving train. The scene will get worse before it gets better, because one side is committed to excluding people, and the other just wants the status quo. We aren't actively looking to limit the influence of reactionaries, or make spaces more inclusive (at least, outside of our own tables). Often, people just want to stop talking about politics, because politics demands something of them (to behave better, to examine the things that make them happy, to occasionally sacrifice their enjoyment for the betterment of others and the world).J. M.https://www.blogger.com/profile/15468808873210275617noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-91914948952861771922018-12-03T15:06:48.634-08:002018-12-03T15:06:48.634-08:00I don't usually respond but this deserves a co...I don't usually respond but this deserves a comment. I am thankful that you posted this. Any vocal criticism of racist, sexist, homophobic, or transphobic views deserves to be supported. Thank you. Shawn G. https://www.blogger.com/profile/13714800792371286214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-41405637806410138502018-12-02T11:30:46.321-08:002018-12-02T11:30:46.321-08:00i'm very very new to this community, but glad ...i'm very very new to this community, but glad to see there's some decent folks in it. right onJudehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01262015898211079643noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-35913737407169536522018-12-02T09:45:36.226-08:002018-12-02T09:45:36.226-08:00Thanks, Corey. Though I hope we haven't quite ...Thanks, Corey. Though I hope we haven't quite reached the point where just asking people to be kind to one another qualifies as 'brave'...Joseph Manolahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05387275537008858939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-70243657135572848282018-12-02T09:44:11.317-08:002018-12-02T09:44:11.317-08:00No, I get what you're saying - and I agree tha...No, I get what you're saying - and I agree that it's the figures on the fringes who are the problem. Paradox of tolerance and all that. Common courtesy allows me to work happily alongside my Conservative-voting colleagues, and vice versa, without any of us needing to call upon the 'mediating institutions' that supposedly regulate our interactions - but if someone came into the department and started yelling BNP slogans at Muslim students, we'd invoke the university authorities, and quite right too. Online, however, such provocateurs are much harder to get rid of. I'm not sure that anyone's quite figured out a real solution yet.<br /><br />But we do have some tools. Disapproval can be expressed. People can be blocked. Collaborations can be refused. Links can be taken down. Anyone who's spent any length of time on the internet knows that all online communities have a few loons clinging onto their edges. The important thing is to make clear that they are not representative of the community as a whole. <br /><br />Thus this post, I guess. Joseph Manolahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05387275537008858939noreply@blogger.com