tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post2307292766562101305..comments2024-03-25T00:18:14.319-07:00Comments on Against The Wicked City: Dragon Warriors: You Can Never Go BackJoseph Manolahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05387275537008858939noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-12423433688500730402024-03-02T17:12:41.587-08:002024-03-02T17:12:41.587-08:00I love Dragon Warriors mainly because, as a DM, I ...I love Dragon Warriors mainly because, as a DM, I was fortunate enough to play through the entire six books as a player. It was my exposure as an AD&D DM to *playing*<br /><br />Dragon Warriors would not have existed if not for D&D but it is a better introduction to the genre for Europeans because Europeans have culture. The American mind is fascinated by the universal burger. Europeans visit old churches.<br /><br />----JM said:<br />I don't think the Dragon Warriors rules system was ever very good at... anything, really. It was quick and easy to pick up, but I feel it compares poorly to Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, which came out just one year later, and did a much better job of reflecting its setting through its rules. The strength of DW was always in the writing, art, and world.<br />--------<br /><br />I read WHFRP at the same time, more or less, and found the rules clunky but workable. I love complexity as I have embraced AD&D, but I love the simplicity of DW too. The point is that growing complexity is perilous. The simplicity of DW is alarming - the DM can focus on environment, and the environment given in DW is wonderful in a way that American material is not. But really they, rules & environment, grow together.<br /><br /><br /><br />Kenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11165997449776226774noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-82164732730634091942024-01-31T13:53:17.849-08:002024-01-31T13:53:17.849-08:00Interesting. Thanks.
Though I'd say that it...Interesting. Thanks.<br />Though I'd say that it's important to have rules which add to the style, not subtract from it. Unfortunately, it actually needs to be said. %)<br />MikeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-48500559495851470882020-06-10T09:49:16.340-07:002020-06-10T09:49:16.340-07:00That inklesspen post is a belter. I mean I don'...That inklesspen post is a belter. I mean I don't need selling on DW, but it's good.<br /><br />We still have fingers in the pie that is Dragon Warriors over at : https://www.facebook.com/groups/2321315414820351/<br /><br />We've just had a bit of resurgence too with a new chat server. I'm excited to actually get a chance to play this again.Simon Barnshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16721105717593935991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-9841542061197535572017-11-04T02:24:25.422-07:002017-11-04T02:24:25.422-07:00http://projects.inklesspen.com/fatal-and-friends/t...http://projects.inklesspen.com/fatal-and-friends/traveller/dragon-warriors/Philosophical slumberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09585095964577331413noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-18479275528588665972017-11-03T02:29:46.328-07:002017-11-03T02:29:46.328-07:00Love this post. It made me want to track down the ...Love this post. It made me want to track down the remaining old books, since i only own the first two. And i concur, the grim art and the atmosphere it evokes is something alluring.Philosophical slumberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09585095964577331413noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-41652844867129364162017-10-11T02:37:35.948-07:002017-10-11T02:37:35.948-07:00I adapted the rules found in "Blood Sword&quo...I adapted the rules found in "Blood Sword" for the thief into "Dragon Warriors". However, it remains very close to an assassin. mundialecterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10204293820750293401noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-70405647443422997692017-10-11T02:21:29.646-07:002017-10-11T02:21:29.646-07:00Totally agree. DW has no generic "thief"...Totally agree. DW has no generic "thief" class, but instead has this class representing membership in one of two very selective and setting-specific societies.<br /><br />Of course, they were cool as hell, and you could easily hack out a more general rogue class. But see my first point - why would you want to?Edgewisehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01975570824983584330noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-82031348746519731162017-10-11T02:17:35.260-07:002017-10-11T02:17:35.260-07:00The thing with the DW books (I still have my origi...The thing with the DW books (I still have my originals) is that each one presented only a slice of the game, and each built on the previous one. So if you get one, it must be the first. Just be aware that this only has rules for adventuring as a warrior (specifically a knight or barbarian).Edgewisehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01975570824983584330noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-28190150649758081552017-09-28T14:37:44.209-07:002017-09-28T14:37:44.209-07:00Damn, I remember those gamebooks. Cretan Chronicle...Damn, I remember those gamebooks. Cretan Chronicles, right? They were *so* unfair...<br /><br />And the road warrior one... I only ever played one of those, I think. All I can really remember about it is that the boss villain had a chainsaw for a hand...Joseph Manolahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05387275537008858939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-32661769775091466072017-09-28T14:35:11.869-07:002017-09-28T14:35:11.869-07:00My own attempts to run DW with its own rule system...My own attempts to run DW with its own rule system, many years ago, weren't much more successful. I soon switched to other systems - D&D, WHFRP, and the 1987 edition of Stormbringer, to be precise - but the fantasy worlds I used them to depict were still very heavily influenced by my initial exposure to Dragon Warriors...Joseph Manolahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05387275537008858939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-41042148125900156902017-09-28T08:24:05.205-07:002017-09-28T08:24:05.205-07:00i found dragon warriors original pdfs online in se...i found dragon warriors original pdfs online in several places, also a road war series and a ancient crete series Konsumterrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18170560484656800416noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-61742225788734968132017-09-28T03:47:57.634-07:002017-09-28T03:47:57.634-07:00Right. Fortunately, long ago, I had a small bunch ...Right. Fortunately, long ago, I had a small bunch of merry players, and though the adventures I made them play (n°1 of Book 2 and n°1 of Book 3) were not very interesting per se, we often ended up with laughter. n°1 of Book 3 was a total failure for my players : one of them was a low-ranking elementalist and used his spells to communicate with... flowers. Later, they got wounded by a giant bee. One of their companions fell into a pit-trap, and when they wanted to rescue him (impaled on a pike and bleeding to death...) they realised he was the one carrying the rope in his haversack. Finally the rest of the party got massacred by an old sadist wielding a battle-axe. My players were laughing to tears... And Dave Morris had much fun when I told him later this absolutely failed forest walk. mundialecterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10204293820750293401noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-90998069020837340482017-09-28T03:36:25.102-07:002017-09-28T03:36:25.102-07:00Thanks - that's good to know!Thanks - that's good to know!Joseph Manolahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05387275537008858939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-16562982443795159592017-09-28T03:36:10.143-07:002017-09-28T03:36:10.143-07:00Assassins were an odd case... as written, they wer...Assassins were an odd case... as written, they were obviously supposed to be ninjas (complete with 'throwing spikes'), catering to the mid-1980s ninja fetish which was so prevalent at the time. But then book 6 had to actually tie them to the setting, and reimagined them as Hashashin, which made them much more interesting...Joseph Manolahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05387275537008858939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-47814981149133281712017-09-28T03:32:47.735-07:002017-09-28T03:32:47.735-07:00Yeah, Blood Sword was amazing.
I don't think ...Yeah, Blood Sword was amazing.<br /><br />I don't think the Dragon Warriors rules system was ever very good at... anything, really. It was quick and easy to pick up, but I feel it compares poorly to Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, which came out just one year later, and did a much better job of reflecting its setting through its rules. The strength of DW was always in the writing, art, and world.Joseph Manolahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05387275537008858939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-6833786417924547342017-09-28T03:25:04.344-07:002017-09-28T03:25:04.344-07:00(And let me just say again that the beastmen you&#...(And let me just say again that the beastmen you've been doing recently have been *amazing*!)Joseph Manolahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05387275537008858939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-40181844259028539992017-09-28T03:24:37.787-07:002017-09-28T03:24:37.787-07:00Now you mention it, I can kinda see the resemblanc...Now you mention it, I can kinda see the resemblance...Joseph Manolahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05387275537008858939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-34129543273539308472017-09-28T03:16:44.283-07:002017-09-28T03:16:44.283-07:0040K's an interesting point of comparison, as i...40K's an interesting point of comparison, as it appeared in Britain at almost exactly the same time. (DW was 1985; the original Rogue Trader version of 40K, which was as much an RPG as a wargame, was 1987.) In a lot of ways, they share a very similar sensibility...Joseph Manolahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05387275537008858939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-38252101234125305442017-09-27T14:17:07.966-07:002017-09-27T14:17:07.966-07:00The French edition of the original version was div...The French edition of the original version was divided the same way as in English (I got all versions). The only think is that book 1 in French was not as complete in terms of exemples of play.Frenchinuknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-48422547291950173322017-09-27T09:49:17.125-07:002017-09-27T09:49:17.125-07:00For future reference, the Bestiary *does* indeed c...For future reference, the Bestiary *does* indeed contain all the juicy flavour that was present in 'Dragon Warriors' and 'Out of the Shadows'(including the bit about Goblins wielding swords made of icicles). <br /><br />The art style is very different to what was in the original Corgi edition, but I personally find that I don't mind them as much now, and some of them do reference the original pictures from time to time (eg The pictures for the Thorn Demons from 'The Elven Crystals' and the Winged Snake from 'Out of the Shadows' have their clearly inspired counterparts in the Bestiary), which I think is a nice touch - calling back to the game's roots, in a way. Vladhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02205246642283826547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-71826380345296874652017-09-27T09:03:21.068-07:002017-09-27T09:03:21.068-07:00Book #4 also had the Assassin career in it, which ...Book #4 also had the Assassin career in it, which fascinated me utterly.Kodanshihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11034518389655658322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-78423919336702457172017-09-26T22:29:31.705-07:002017-09-26T22:29:31.705-07:00I still own the 6 books (in their French edition);...I still own the 6 books (in their French edition); indeed that was the first RPG I ever owned because it was sold in a gamebook format you could get at the local supermarket. As author Dave Morris himself admitted, this format contributed to give them some appearance of "low quality". IMO, they are not my favorite ones, as my personal taste goes to the more developped Warhammer Fantasy (and if I hadn't Warhammer, I think I would switch to Savage Worlds) but they would still rank in the middle of the quality scale after all these years. That's the perfect system for beginners, for the rules were rudimentary but they do their job. There are enough character classes to keep your players interested (and I added "thieves" from the gamebooks), as you wrote the monster descriptions were great (though I suspect my French version too often watered down the English original) and I'm still in love with book 6 describing the universe of the Lands of Legend ("Terres de Légende" in French, Dave told me that, there, he preferred the French name over the English "Dragon Warriors"). But I regret that most adventures were dungeon crawls lacking originality (except for the adventure of Book 6 and the last one of Book 4, which includes a magnificient esoteric labyrinth). And - last but not least - this series served as a background for the splendid quest of "Blood Sword", considered as ones of the best gamebooks ever written. mundialecterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10204293820750293401noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-64684779880107698372017-09-26T22:09:23.253-07:002017-09-26T22:09:23.253-07:00Provided that the French edition was divided the s...Provided that the French edition was divided the same way the English original edition was, Book 5 had its first section dedicated to Elementalists - I liked this class for they could rapidly get powerful spells in their main "element" (they had to choose one main element, and this choice triggered minor powers in the two secondary elements). Rules were provided as well for "Darkness Elementalists", i.e. evil sorcerers. There was a short section on Madness. The bulk of the book was dedicated to a long quest in Glisson, a small kingdom north of Erevorn, whose target was to save the world from the awakening of Darkness God Balor. <br />If I still had the opportunity to run roleplaying as a GM, I would still use Book 6, which had simple rules for sea voyages, for the background of characters and a new bunch of interesting curios.<br />Book 4 is interesting as well, because of its bestiary (rarer monsters, but still with good description) and of the last adventure where the players have to choose whether they help a wizard or the noble who wants to get back his castle. mundialecterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10204293820750293401noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-84362379249764888172017-09-26T18:05:56.571-07:002017-09-26T18:05:56.571-07:00yep looked at new one and went back to the old one...yep looked at new one and went back to the old one<br /><br />this game set mood of my games ever since - i still describe my style a grimdark 80s uk fantasy, pretty much the opposite of dragon lanceKonsumterrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18170560484656800416noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-46623994298536388042017-09-26T10:47:08.572-07:002017-09-26T10:47:08.572-07:00(It seems my comment ended up as a reply? Oops, so...(It seems my comment ended up as a reply? Oops, sorry)Old Scribehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06648431931967689768noreply@blogger.com