tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post5324639592582431676..comments2024-03-25T00:18:14.319-07:00Comments on Against The Wicked City: “You can’t ever let that see print”: Horror, Pathfinder and the limits of the publishableJoseph Manolahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05387275537008858939noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-89554767140297090432020-12-09T06:52:48.536-08:002020-12-09T06:52:48.536-08:00You're quite right: sheer splatter is very ine...You're quite right: sheer splatter is very ineffectual in tabletop games, especially games which have no psychology rules to give them mechanical 'weight'. At most you'll elicit a few 'eww' responses. Effective RPG horror is always about *ideas*.Joseph Manolahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05387275537008858939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-37405980670525345412020-12-08T05:08:10.706-08:002020-12-08T05:08:10.706-08:00Also, this seems very much the blood'n'gut...Also, this seems very much the blood'n'guts/disgust type of horror. Less creepy, building dread and more trying to shock. That makes me wonder just how effective it is in a tabletop context. After a while, everyone is probably gonna be somewhat desensitised. Lost in Wonderlandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06667463332124923078noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-59348189922514060772020-01-01T18:58:06.577-08:002020-01-01T18:58:06.577-08:00Yeah, the fact all ogres are men is also talk into...Yeah, the fact all ogres are men is also talk into another stuff: that woman are in general sexualized, is why the typical evil matriach is dress like a feminatrix, why tough female are see like "mens with teats" even by feminists alike, there this sense that violence is clean, plain and a male activity.<br /><br />The other issue I will said, is that people fail to realize that in a way, rape IS torture: is hurting other people because you like it, is not surprising that the worst rapist in criminal history tend to be in general torture too and draw the suffering longer, you cannot dislink the too. Diego ernestohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14162112803281913763noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-14321201780797313092019-05-21T04:42:45.609-07:002019-05-21T04:42:45.609-07:00I can't help wondering how that would interfac...I can't help wondering how that would interface with Pathfinder's infamous 'rules with everything' approach to encounter design. 'Jeppo's CR is reduced in this encounter to reflect the fact that he is unable to apply his Dex bonus to his armour class for as long as his penis remains wedged inside his brother's vestigial twin...'<br /><br />I think pre-game talks with players are essential to any kind of horror gaming. Even generic D&D stuff like 'and then you fall into a pit of giant spiders' can end up really upsetting people if, say, they happen to be severely arachnophobic. As with most things in life, communicating honestly, early, and often is the best way to minimise the chances of anyone getting hurt. Joseph Manolahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05387275537008858939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-28375957528857588752019-05-20T19:10:11.545-07:002019-05-20T19:10:11.545-07:00James Jacobs posted some of the cut content on the...James Jacobs posted some of the cut content on the Paizo boards and it was stuff like "one ogrekin facefucks the vestigial twin another ogrekin has on his back." So yes, sex, but astonishingly weird/horrific stuff.<br /><br />It's the kind of material I'd gladly see from LotFP but that wouldn't go down well with Pathfinder's player base (at least the Pathfinder players I play with). As it stands I'd warn a group things get pretty messed up and have a talk about player comfort before starting Hook Mountain Massacre.Ariviahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02562344254598570078noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-29592907334849685212018-07-18T02:49:40.343-07:002018-07-18T02:49:40.343-07:00"Now, in real-world terms, this is a pretty s..."Now, in real-world terms, this is a pretty silly distinction: anyone who obsessively mutilates human corpses obviously does so because it gives them an erotic thrill, regardless of the sex of the corpse in question. To imagine that there is no sadistic erotic charge involved in mutilating, torturing, flaying, dismembering, or eating someone, and that as long as both parties keep their pants on then it's all just good, clean, entirely non-sexual fun, is merest wishful thinking."<br /><br />Which means there's a grey area not directly addressed of sexual violence against men.<br /><br />Women aren't mentioned at all, men are mentioned graphically in terms of physical violence/mutilation. The implied sexual undertones of the violence against men isn't addressed either.<br /><br />Not saying it should be, in fact I'm in the category of people who would rather keep that out of the game entirely regardless of gender of the victim. <br /><br />But there's maybe a thread there about how we as a society don't address the fact that men can be - and are - victims of sexual violence too.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-29274349874244299182018-05-02T05:20:47.430-07:002018-05-02T05:20:47.430-07:00But is he really moralizing? Manola seems to just...But is he really moralizing? Manola seems to just be describing reality as he sees it. That's hardly moralizing. Yami Bakurahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17266174008401745128noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-23098945775448628582016-06-06T17:01:05.535-07:002016-06-06T17:01:05.535-07:00I was with you until you started moralizing. I was with you until you started moralizing. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-8091820728869509262016-05-22T12:33:31.909-07:002016-05-22T12:33:31.909-07:00Very interesting read. But now that I am thinking ...Very interesting read. But now that I am thinking of it, even LotFP doesn't seem to go to the extends that are implied in Hook Mountain.<br /><br />Not having read Hook Mountain, it does sound rather excessive, though. When you pile that stuff too high it just turns into absurd. Less is more.Yorahttp://spriggans-den.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-91062595019083029932016-03-09T09:13:01.911-08:002016-03-09T09:13:01.911-08:00Everything you say is true, and I certainly unders...Everything you say is true, and I certainly understand *why* sexual violence is handled differently to physical violence in RPGs; outside of very specific circles (e.g. army gaming groups on active deployment) most gamers will have had very limited exposure to extreme physical violence, whereas the chances of some of them having had direct experience of sexual violence is depressingly high. But I was troubled by how blatantly the division was enforced in 'The Hook Mountain Massacre'. The text makes abundantly clear that the ogres are engaging in all kinds of appalling physical and sexual violence... and then proceeds to actually show you *all* of the former and *none* of the latter. <br /><br />I mean, if you're not prepared to show it, to engage with it, to actually *deal* with it, then why bring it up in the first place? Why not just declare that humans look as unattractive to ogres as ogres do to humans, or that ogres think that humans smell so delicious that no ogre could ever resist eating a human captive for long enough to mistreat them in other ways, or any one of a dozen other excuses for why they might kill but not rape their victims? Why not just do what most fantasy fiction does, and simply neglect to mention sexual violence at all? (We know it's not 'realistic', but if we wanted realism we wouldn't be spending our leisure time playing D&D, would we?) Why all this dark hinting, as though sexual violence was fine and good to fantasise about, but far too horrible to actually talk about or depict? As I say in the post, it's the attempt to have it both ways which bothers me. Joseph Manolahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05387275537008858939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-40302186540673694732016-03-08T09:54:58.788-08:002016-03-08T09:54:58.788-08:00Great article, thank you. But I think it should be...Great article, thank you. But I think it should be kept in mind that there are so many diverse factors influencing the cultural hierarchy of acceptability (what is currently deemed acceptable for media representation and what's not, and to what extent), that the latter naturally can't be a straightforward reflection of how horrible something is in real life. Like, death on the battlefield is nowhere good and clean, but it has been glorified for millennia, and we are still raised on this kind of discourse. Now, rape in its 'traditional' form (and I shudder to think how fit the word is) is special exactly because it is common and pervasive. Cannibalism and disembowelment are rare enough to feel 'exotic' and completely external to real-life experiences for most of us, and they are universally acknowledged as something extremely wrong. But a sexual act forced by a male on a female who does not want it is, alas, a relatively common feature of our human landscape, and that affects the emotional response.Dmitry Gerasimovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04870509986491401701noreply@blogger.com