tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post9020625821709592230..comments2024-03-25T00:18:14.319-07:00Comments on Against The Wicked City: B/X Class: The ExtrasJoseph Manolahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05387275537008858939noreply@blogger.comBlogger27125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-11680506735764982612021-08-02T16:55:47.357-07:002021-08-02T16:55:47.357-07:00Still great, but the rewrite of their death mechan...Still great, but the rewrite of their death mechanics broke the example. Sarge is supposed to become a fighter of half the Extras' level, rounded down, but the Cutthroats are a level 3 Extras and Kat becomes a level 2 Fighter when they die. She should be level 1 or the Cutthroats should be level 4.Stephenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17718188146918003275noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-89979202598586089992020-12-26T07:48:32.319-08:002020-12-26T07:48:32.319-08:00This is still one of the best custom B/X classes o...This is still one of the best custom B/X classes of all time. xDMatt Phttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03301070414722134097noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-17549831629262213762020-11-21T14:35:52.862-08:002020-11-21T14:35:52.862-08:00No, that's great. Glad you found it useful!No, that's great. Glad you found it useful!Joseph Manolahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05387275537008858939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-59433928015708345892020-11-16T04:37:58.894-08:002020-11-16T04:37:58.894-08:00Hi!
I recently found about this post and I liked ...Hi!<br /><br />I recently found about this post and I liked the idea so much that I tried to implement something similar for my current system (Mini Six).<br /><br />I credited you, of course: https://www.pa-mar.net/rpg/mini6/mini-six/rules/Extras.html (let me know if you would prefer something different in terms of citation, though).PaMarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10904008809249375913noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-37697613057185740632019-04-30T12:54:24.761-07:002019-04-30T12:54:24.761-07:00I love this, will be using it at next possible opp...I love this, will be using it at next possible opportunity!<br />Perfect for something like the crowd of miscellaneous Brothers of the Black Company or the Bridgeburners!Xaosseedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16921003959109753612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-35912432283965077742017-08-25T05:10:05.020-07:002017-08-25T05:10:05.020-07:00This is incredibleThis is incredibleUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10526324326792266677noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-81073105279386489912017-03-13T14:20:32.799-07:002017-03-13T14:20:32.799-07:00I keep coming back to this post from time to time ...I keep coming back to this post from time to time just to marvel.<br />Hands down one of my favorite ideas for B/X.Jarrett Perduehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09781934913113611353noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-16258535534481777792016-10-28T15:32:50.753-07:002016-10-28T15:32:50.753-07:00I have seen this idea before. Land of NOD had the ...I have seen this idea before. Land of NOD had the Canting Crew class, and I think I once read some old issue of White Dwarf where they proposed to play... I think it was a group of Barghests.<br />Still, would love to add something like this to my game, just for the sheer weirdness of it all.gmkeroshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13230061545143361333noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-85694125689043433992016-09-30T04:05:59.376-07:002016-09-30T04:05:59.376-07:00Sorry, unstated was assuming the "work of ten...Sorry, unstated was assuming the "work of ten men" thing covered carrying capacity as well. Sometimes my reading is a bit sloppy.<br /><br />I will post an update but I should add a caveat that while I'd love to try this as a player, I don't think my current DM is ready for it, and it will likely first see the light of day as a way of having the players of the campaign I'd like to run next semester meet "group of human soldiers" on the road, and since the party can't usefully fight a squad of 8d8 0-1 level guys and a handful of leader types in melee, or at least I'd have the devil of a time running such a thing, I'm looking at having the encounter secretly be with d3+1 d3 level mobs.<br /><br />So, not quite as funny as me playing the party's hirelings in general. It could be years before I get a chance to do that.frijoles juniorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01423720423119688947noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-34336237146278116252016-09-29T10:57:41.546-07:002016-09-29T10:57:41.546-07:00Yeah, that all sounds pretty sensible. (Although g...Yeah, that all sounds pretty sensible. (Although giving them tenfold food/ammo consumption *without* tenfold carrying capacity seems a bit harsh.) And single-target save-or-die killing Sarge and inflicting a level loss seems like a perfectly good alternative in circumstances where it would seriously strain credulity to have the whole mob wiped out by a single needle, or whatever...<br /><br />If you do run with it, then do let me know how it goes!Joseph Manolahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05387275537008858939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-89400599785972688202016-09-29T10:53:26.498-07:002016-09-29T10:53:26.498-07:00Like I said in response to Gus, above, I probably ...Like I said in response to Gus, above, I probably wouldn't allow them at all in a game where inventory management was meant to be a really big deal: in a situation like that, the simple fact of having loads of extra hands to hold things could make a whole lot of difference. Just allowing double space would probably also work. Joseph Manolahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05387275537008858939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-31832607698607999102016-09-28T18:24:53.895-07:002016-09-28T18:24:53.895-07:00I want this to work as a playable class so that I ...I want this to work as a playable class so that I can keep that 0-level funnel/meat-grinder feel going deep into the dungeon. To whit, a few suggested tweaks:<br /><br />I think the "only consumes as much food/ammo (torches?) as one guy" rule goes too easy. <br /><br />Being consistent and having them require 10x as much food will have the party dragging pack mules down dungeon stairs to keep the extras from starving. Ditto torches and ammo.<br /><br />And I think if the poison needle trap would kill a dude, it must necessarily be a named character, and cliche would have it be sarge. <br /><br />Maybe if the mob is alive when sarge buys it, one of the lietenants steps up to be a new sarge of whatever level mob he can hold together. So the 5th level hooligan mob loses Big Eddie, but the 2nd level Red Gracie steps up to head a new 3rd level hooligan mob. <br /><br />It does lend a certain Die Hard quality to them, since a sufficiently high level group of Extras can go several steps before they get busted down to 1st level and disperses if the last sarge dies. <br /><br />That's probably pretty unlikely to happen before the mob goes to 0 hp and breaks into named characters.frijoles juniorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01423720423119688947noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-57316230390102301242016-09-28T15:26:33.917-07:002016-09-28T15:26:33.917-07:00This is truly an awesome class! I MUST use it some...This is truly an awesome class! I MUST use it somehow with Lamentations of the Flame Princess in my Caverns of Thracia open table campaign!<br />I only need to adjust something and think about some little issues (like the poison trap Gus mentioned)<br /><br />About the inventory... I'd allow at most double inventory space.<br />Or even normal inventory space... after all, the consumables are used as if they were a single character!<br />Why should they be able to carry more stuff? Why should they even be willing to to that? They're sure not getting enough share of the treasure to do the job!Dismaster FraNehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15170014468647556249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-61119187847055782312016-09-27T19:45:39.629-07:002016-09-27T19:45:39.629-07:00I haven't been this excited to play a class si...I haven't been this excited to play a class since the muscle wizard!Maxim Golubchikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01744683730688693751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-64911543380384945262016-09-27T15:52:47.945-07:002016-09-27T15:52:47.945-07:00Dammit, Gus, stop making me do proper thinking abo...Dammit, Gus, stop making me do proper thinking about my stupid 'my guy is actually fifteen comedy pirates' class!<br /><br />OK. If someone in one of my games actually wanted to play this, I think I'd do it like this - <br /><br />- Once you've bought your ten copies of an item, then all Extras are assumed to have that item. So either they all have polearms or (effectively) none of them do. The only exception is magic items, which they don't benefit from nearly as much as other people.<br /><br />- There's no way I'd let anyone claim line of sight through a 20' wide mob of extras unless they were on a higher elevation. (Remember, they revert to a 20' square mob whenever possible!) So putting them in front will usually prevent the PCs behind them from engaging the monsters at all - and will probably swiftly result in the extras dying, because a whole bunch of monsters can attack them every turn and they can only strike back once or twice.<br /><br />- I *think* the death of the Extras should usually be a net negative? Even at, say, level 5, all you get out of it is a level 4 fighter and four level 2 henchmen, all of them badly wounded - the henchmen will have an average of 3 HP each! And then if even one of them dies, you can never get the Extras back. Any combat dangerous enough to kill them off in the first place should also be dangerous enough to create a very real risk of them never coming back.<br /><br />- Inventory is certainly an issue. If encumbrance management is a big deal in your game, then you shouldn't allow them, as they essentially give you a very durable baggage train.<br /><br />- By a poison needle trap, you mean a single-target save or die effect, right? Personally, I'd have them all die, yes, via whatever absurd chain of events is necessary to bring that about. Or maybe one dies and the rest panic and run off and are never seen again. I dunno. They're extras. They exist in a kind of indeterminate state at the best of times.<br /><br />Anyway. Good points! Feel free to suggest a rewrite!Joseph Manolahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05387275537008858939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-19346008684296548852016-09-27T09:56:24.728-07:002016-09-27T09:56:24.728-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Connor W.https://www.blogger.com/profile/13152164902819709334noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-83237898207168663042016-09-27T09:56:20.087-07:002016-09-27T09:56:20.087-07:00Exactly what I was thinking! That would be a great...Exactly what I was thinking! That would be a great party.Connor W.https://www.blogger.com/profile/13152164902819709334noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-81604073798403333492016-09-27T09:38:27.546-07:002016-09-27T09:38:27.546-07:0010 times the equipment sounds like a lot, but gett...10 times the equipment sounds like a lot, but getting them all into medium armor with crossbows, shields, hand weapons and polearms would still be something one could do by 2nd level with ease. They won't have much to start with, but a single treasure haul and they're fine. Plus I can envision all sorts of equipment shenanigans. If the guy with the shield and plate can defend, and the one with the polearm and a loincloth attack you can seriously juggle attack and defense really well. Plus the space thing helps with defense. Stick the extras in front once you get them armored and you battle line just got really long and well protected. have your 'valuable' PCs behind it shooting, casting and stabbing with reach weapons. The party is never outnumbered, and while longer battles are dangerous as the extras will go down from the number of attacks they face (unless you use rules that allow defensive fighting) but that's okay because they split into more stronger fighters when they 'die' and are resurrected at full health next session. <br /><br />Plus they make inventory and thus exploration superfluous by being able to carry everything.<br /><br />Also what happens when the extras get hit with a poison needle trap? Do they all die instantly? Does the death of one of them do 1HP damage or kill sarge?<br /><br />That is to say I love this system in concept, and I'd totally use this as a way of running a group of Npcs under control of the party in special circumstances (lead this patrol! bring these pilgrims to the holy site!) but not as a PC that levels my players would wreck things with it.<br /><br />Perhaps another way of using this would be as a pool for the wastrels, drunkards, orphans and addicts that make up low level henchmen. No leveling though.Gus Lhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14872819206286105195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-40687431025273566812016-09-27T01:23:32.615-07:002016-09-27T01:23:32.615-07:00GOONS!
I like this.GOONS!<br /><br />I like this.pjamesstuarthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13288777018721199748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-32104562336724336522016-09-26T23:41:43.745-07:002016-09-26T23:41:43.745-07:00This is amaaaaazing. I'd love to see a whole p...This is amaaaaazing. I'd love to see a whole party of these guys.James Younghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01728054107958411289noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-67840850551904363682016-09-26T20:42:52.898-07:002016-09-26T20:42:52.898-07:00d12 is a big die and all, but since they're ot...d12 is a big die and all, but since they're otherwise taking damage just as everyone else, collectively (unless I missed something), I don't think it's that big. Especially since you need ten times the equipment to outfit them and they have a LOT of hittable surface area. They're also a logistical nightmare in a dungeon.<br /><br />I like it, it's a funny and innovative ideas. Good job!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-42245607129411268742016-09-26T20:05:37.215-07:002016-09-26T20:05:37.215-07:00Fookin' marvelous! This is something I needed....Fookin' marvelous! This is something I needed. It makes sense given swarm creatures and suchlike, but it is a stroke of genius to use it as a PC class. Tom Fitzgeraldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14893168729760333884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-86419212683606274852016-09-26T15:26:50.710-07:002016-09-26T15:26:50.710-07:00Nothing on this blog is ever playtested: it's ...Nothing on this blog is ever playtested: it's all just stuff I come up with while I'm supposed to be working. If you do give this (or anything else) a try in actual play, though, let me know how it goes!Joseph Manolahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05387275537008858939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-21695318498403611992016-09-26T15:05:07.044-07:002016-09-26T15:05:07.044-07:00I kind of like the idea! Have you done any playte...I kind of like the idea! Have you done any playtesting of it?<br /><br />They seem to take up a lot of space too...<br /><br />David<br />Minnesota, USAThe Dale Wardenshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12864432866927396245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392427526916288536.post-12942769992973082282016-09-26T13:56:10.666-07:002016-09-26T13:56:10.666-07:00Funnily enough, my first draft included both of th...Funnily enough, my first draft included both of those things! I took them out because I thought the Extras would have enough problems as it was: they'll usually have poor AC (due to tenfold armour prices and limited benefit from magic items), and their large battlefield 'footprint' makes it difficult to shield them from harm by hiding, taking cover, standing behind the fighter, etc. <br /><br />I can see how they could be a problem if their player used the Extras cynically, as essentially nothing more than a big pile of ablative HP for their 'real' character. If you thought your players were likely to play them like that then by all means increase the XP per level and impose level loss upon 'death'. <br /><br />Also, I've just realised the dying rules are horribly unbalanced at high levels. Time for a quick rewrite!Joseph Manolahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05387275537008858939noreply@blogger.com